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akkartik
teliva
C2021–2022
akkartik / teliva

teliva

Fork of Lua 5.1 to encourage end-user programming

3Distinct people
9Mentions
0Explicit recommenders
177GitHub stars
REPOSITORY AT A GLANCE

What to know before exploring

What it is

Fork of Lua 5.1 to encourage end-user programming

GitHub

Where it is used

No documented product use has been verified yet.

What people are saying

No recommendation phrase was found in the indexed comments.

No classified warning is attached to this page. Read the discussions before treating silence as approval.

Also in these discussions

No other repository is repeatedly linked in the same discussions.

This week on Hacker News

Nov 7–Nov 14 UTC · Direct repository links and separately labeled related project stories. Indexed through 11/14/2026, 5:04:57 PM UTC.

No direct repository links were found in the indexed HN discussions over the past seven days. Older discussions are available below.

Mentions over time

HN mentions by month9 dated mentions

Observed mentions: 2021-11-15 19:30:37 UTC to 2022-12-03 20:25:32 UTC.

012342021-11-01 00:00:00 UTC to 2021-12-01 00:00:00 UTC (exclusive): 1 mentions; 1 submissions, 0 commentsNov 20212021-12-01 00:00:00 UTC to 2022-01-01 00:00:00 UTC (exclusive): 2 mentions; 0 submissions, 2 comments2022-01-01 00:00:00 UTC to 2022-02-01 00:00:00 UTC (exclusive): 4 mentions; 0 submissions, 4 comments2022-02-01 00:00:00 UTC to 2022-03-01 00:00:00 UTC (exclusive): 1 mentions; 0 submissions, 1 comments2022-03-01 00:00:00 UTC to 2022-04-01 00:00:00 UTC (exclusive): 0 mentions; 0 submissions, 0 comments2022-04-01 00:00:00 UTC to 2022-05-01 00:00:00 UTC (exclusive): 0 mentions; 0 submissions, 0 comments2022-05-01 00:00:00 UTC to 2022-06-01 00:00:00 UTC (exclusive): 0 mentions; 0 submissions, 0 commentsMay 20222022-06-01 00:00:00 UTC to 2022-07-01 00:00:00 UTC (exclusive): 0 mentions; 0 submissions, 0 comments2022-07-01 00:00:00 UTC to 2022-08-01 00:00:00 UTC (exclusive): 0 mentions; 0 submissions, 0 comments2022-08-01 00:00:00 UTC to 2022-09-01 00:00:00 UTC (exclusive): 0 mentions; 0 submissions, 0 comments2022-09-01 00:00:00 UTC to 2022-10-01 00:00:00 UTC (exclusive): 0 mentions; 0 submissions, 0 comments2022-10-01 00:00:00 UTC to 2022-11-01 00:00:00 UTC (exclusive): 0 mentions; 0 submissions, 0 comments2022-11-01 00:00:00 UTC to 2022-12-01 00:00:00 UTC (exclusive): 0 mentions; 0 submissions, 0 comments2022-12-01 00:00:00 UTC to 2023-01-01 00:00:00 UTC (exclusive): 1 mentions; 0 submissions, 1 commentsDec 2022

Counts come from the repository’s dated source evidence. Index cutoff: 2026-11-02 08:16:59 UTC.

View mention counts and date ranges
UTC ranges include their start and exclude their end. Select a period to filter the source evidence.
PeriodStart (UTC)End (exclusive, UTC)MentionsSubmissionsComments
Nov 20212021-11-01 00:00:00 UTC2021-12-01 00:00:00 UTC110
Dec 20212021-12-01 00:00:00 UTC2022-01-01 00:00:00 UTC202
Jan 20222022-01-01 00:00:00 UTC2022-02-01 00:00:00 UTC404
Feb 20222022-02-01 00:00:00 UTC2022-03-01 00:00:00 UTC101
Mar 20222022-03-01 00:00:00 UTC2022-04-01 00:00:00 UTC000
Apr 20222022-04-01 00:00:00 UTC2022-05-01 00:00:00 UTC000
May 20222022-05-01 00:00:00 UTC2022-06-01 00:00:00 UTC000
Jun 20222022-06-01 00:00:00 UTC2022-07-01 00:00:00 UTC000
Jul 20222022-07-01 00:00:00 UTC2022-08-01 00:00:00 UTC000
Aug 20222022-08-01 00:00:00 UTC2022-09-01 00:00:00 UTC000
Sep 20222022-09-01 00:00:00 UTC2022-10-01 00:00:00 UTC000
Oct 20222022-10-01 00:00:00 UTC2022-11-01 00:00:00 UTC000
Nov 20222022-11-01 00:00:00 UTC2022-12-01 00:00:00 UTC000
Dec 20222022-12-01 00:00:00 UTC2023-01-01 00:00:00 UTC101

What Hacker News says

9 sources
Thanks for reply and for have shared your project first! > I think we can refresh some the things that make it powerful with a fresh coat of paint, to make it more accessible to a “younger generation.” That's what scare me, again in general: I see regular small complaint of modern absurdity, posts like: - https://tiramisu.bearblog.dev/your-desktop-is-not-a-destinat... | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33838697 - https://mjg59.dreamwidth.org/61535.html - https://vermaden.wordpress.com/2022/02/07/epitaph-to-laptops... - https://rsapkf.org/weblog/q2z/ - https://tomcritchlow.com/2022/04/21/new-rss/ - https://jfm.carcosa.net/blog/computing/usenet/ | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33510169 - https://dianne.skoll.ca/projects/remind/ | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28363453 - https://github.com/akkartik/teliva - https://akiflow.
Read the rest
com/ - https://onezero.medium.com/the-document-metaphor-desktop-gui... - https://den.dev/blog/user-hostile-software/ - https://www.charlieharrington.com/smart-phone-dumb-terminal/ - https://mattmower.com/2021/08/02/what-we-lost/ and COUNTLESS others, similarly many "new stuff"/innovations appear and are actually partial, limited and limiting solutions to problems already solved decades ago in a more broad and superior way. Emacs itself is a bit horrific in the sense that it's codebase is hard to be kept up by modern developers who have troubles knowing it, but at least represent the classic model. If we lost the memory of the past it will takes decades to reach the level of evolution we have already achieved witch is really a shame. Anytime I see new software, yours, LogSeq, some "new shiny file manager", Tiidly Wiki and so on, witch actually are a BIG effort to achieve something already existing with far less efforts thanks to an already made ecosystems who makes their development easier I have a sore smile: end users suffer from limits of modern software, DEVELOPERS suffer equally because craft something on top of modern systems it's equally terrible but we seems to be unable on one side to reach again a critical mass of users to being able to innovate again, on the other sides most people simply ignore the past so ignore what's lost. A stupid example: link an email in SB means essentially or support a specific MUA, tracking it's evolution since breaking changes might happen all the time or add an MUE inside SB. In Emacs it's just a simple function since anything is already there. In Plan 9 to cite a project often considered hostile from and to Emacs write an MUA is damn simple limiting mails to Plan 9 itself, an MUA it's just a specific viewer of some text stream read form some user-configured filesystems mounts and so on. The sore part is that's I can easy state the above, even in my poor English, but I have no practical solution because resurrecting the classic model for present times demand an effort ONLY a public funded body or a large community can made. We have dismissed "for business reasons" essentially all public research and we have essentially pushed to irrelevance all communities...
In Silver Bullet: Markdown-based extensible open source personal knowledge platform
I work on ways to write programs that help outsiders understand their big picture (rather than insiders understand incoming contributions). The goal: you (any programmer) should be able to use an open-source program, get an idea for a simple tweak, open it up, orient yourself, and make the change you visualized -- all in a single afternoon. More details: http://akkartik.name/about What I have so far: https://github.com/akkartik/teliva Lately I'm spending a lot of time thinking about the sandboxing model. I'm giving a talk about it at FOSDEM this weekend: https://fosdem.org/2022/schedule/event/lastmilesandboxing As a concrete stress test, consider a file browser like Midnight Commander (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30137864). How would you craft policies for a file browser that give it just the permissions it needs to scan director
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ies and open files, but prevent malicious code that creeps into it from scanning directories or opening files?
In Ask HN: Who wants to collaborate?
I question the need for scale in 90% of the places where the tech industry has cargo-culted it. Clearly I'm still failing to articulate this. Perhaps https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30019146#30040616 will help triangulate on what I mean. > Can you clarify what you see as the alternative? Implementing everything from scratch seems absurd and so costly that there’s no point in considering this an actual option. Not using, reimplementing and copying are the closest thing to solutions I have right now. You're right that they're not applicable to most people in their current context. I have a day job in tech and have to deal with some cognitive dissonance every day between my day job and my open source research. The one thing I have found valuable to take to my scale-obsessed tech job is to constantly be suspicious of dependencies and co
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nstantly ask if the operational burdens justify some new feature. Just switching mindset that way from software as asset to software as liability has, I'd like to believe, helped my org's decision-making. > We have probably invested dev-millennia into managing copies. This is exactly what source control does. This is not a new area of investment. Merging is a giant pain in the ass and very possibly always will be. Accepting merge pain better come with some huge benefits. Not all copying is the same. We've learned to copy the letter 'e' so well in our writings that we don't even think about it. In this context, even if I made a tool to make copying easier and merges more reliable, that would just cause people to take on more dependencies which defeats the whole point of understanding dependencies. So tooling would be counter-productive in that direction. The direction I want to focus on is: how can we help people understand the software they've copied into their applications? _That_ is the place where I want tooling to focus. Copying is just an implementation detail, a first, imperfect, heuristic coping mechanism for going from the world we have today to the world I want to move to that has 1000x more forks and 1000x more eyeballs looking at source code. You can see some (very toy) efforts in this direction at https://github.com/akkartik/teliva > It’s untenable to have, e.g., everyone who works on Windows be an expert in every part of the code. It's frustrating to say one thing in response to counter-argument A and have someone then bring up counter-argument B because I didn't talk about it right there in the response to counter-argument A. I think this is what Plato was talking about when he ranted about the problems with the newfangled technology of writing: https://newlearningonline.com/literacies/chapter-1/socrates-.... I'm not saying everyone needs to be an expert in everything. I'm saying software should reduce the pressure on people to be experts so that we can late-bind experts to domains. Not every software sub-system should need expertise at the scale at which it is used in every possible context. My Linux laptop doesn't need to be optimized to the hilt the way Google's server farms do. Using the same scheduling algo or whatever in my laptop imposes real costs on my ability to understand my computer, without giving me the benefits Google gets from the algo.
In Ten years against division of labor in software
"Separation of concerns is a hard-won insight." Absolutely. I'm arguing for separating just concerns, without entangling them with considerations of people. It's certainly reasonable to consider my projects toy. I consider them research: * https://github.com/akkartik/mu * https://github.com/akkartik/teliva "The idea that projects should take source copies instead of library dependencies is just kind of nuts..." The idea that projects should take copies seems about symmetric to me with taking pointers. Call by value vs call by reference. We just haven't had 50 years of tooling to support copies. Where would we be by now if we had devoted equal resources to both branches? "...at least for large libraries." How are these large libraries going for ya? Log4j wasn't exactly a shining example of the human race at its best. We're trying to run be
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fore we can walk.
In Ten years against division of labor in software
There are options between those opposites, though. Here's my preferred point[1] in the space of possibilities: It's impossible for all people to effectively use software over the long term without learning about its internals. Software can help people learn about its internals. [1] https://github.com/akkartik/teliva#readme
In dwm
I work on ways to write programs that help outsiders understand their big picture (rather than insiders understand incoming contributions). The goal: you (any programmer) should be able to use an open-source program, get an idea for a simple tweak, open it up, orient yourself, and make the change you visualized -- all in a single afternoon. More details: http://akkartik.name/about What I have so far: https://github.com/akkartik/teliva Lately I'm spending a lot of time on the sandboxing model. It's nice to be able to download and run untrusted programs before we start trying to understand them. How to permit this without letting them cause too much damage, by explicitly giving them arbitrarily fine-grained permissions that are still easy to take in at a glance.
In Ask HN: Who wants to collaborate?
It's hard. Building Mu has given me more of a flavor for just how hard it is. Some limitations of Mu: * It still requires firmware. There's a whole lot of C down there. How deep do you want to go? * No mouse. This is just my own ignorance. I can't get the damn IRQs and interrupts figured out. * Doesn't work yet on real hardware. I live in Qemu. Debugging that is a whole new set of skills I need to learn. * No networking, almost no persistent storage. Mu has a very simple and slow driver for ATA disks, but that probably won't suffice on most real-world machine configurations. There's 0 network drivers right now. I probably need a dozen to get any sort of coverage. The stuff you mentioned around graphics and OS file dialogs, that feels easier once you're willing to put up with constraints like Mu's 1024x768 and so on. But yeah, there's majo
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r challenges on this road. Partly due to these challenges, I've actually started to hedge my bets and make some compromises. My new project is https://github.com/akkartik/teliva which doesn't try to eliminate C, just minimize it. Linux kernel, libc, Lua (12k lines of C), some libraries for https. A gemini client is actually on my todo list there. I think I have everything I need to build it.
In Mu: A Human-Scale Computer
From page 8: "We don’t switch from blue to some other specified color, because we don’t know the background color of the terminal. Some people, possibly aliens, don’t favor a dark terminal background. If the terminal background were white, and we had just used e.g. ncdirect_fg(n, 0xffffff), text following “house” would be invisible. "One might observe that a user with a blue background will have invisible “house” text. This is a real issue, one lacking a perfect solution. It is not generally possible to discover the RGB values of the default colors. I suppose all one can do is rest easy, serene in the belief that white backgrounds are one thing, but people with chromatic backgrounds deserve whatever happens to them." That's a lot of cognitive dissonance in a work about UI design. Let's try to do better in making TUIs mainstream. That requ
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ires encouraging people to use the few features terminals _do_ provide. Like chromatic backgrounds. I've been doing a fair amount of ncurses hacking recently[1], and I prefer to always explicitly specify colors. People won't get their preferred colors by default, but they'll always get a legible configuration by default. [1] https://github.com/akkartik/teliva
In Hacking the planet with Notcurses: a guide to TUIs (2020) [pdf]

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