dhall-kubernetes

True. YAML is an intermediate representation between my intention expressed in Dhall and what runs in production. https://github.com/dhall-lang/dhall-kubernetes

One thing that might help you in this madness is: https://github.com/dhall-lang/dhall-kubernetes Type safe, fat finger safe representation of your YAMLs is grossly underrated.

At the moment nothing like that exists. Eventually it should be possible to generate RCL types like https://github.com/dhall-lang/dhall-kubernetes does for Dhall.

I hate yaml with a passion. It marginally better than xml for reading (wins huge on comment syntax) and worse for everything else. It makes zero sense we somehow ended up with it as standard configuration serialization format. Note yaml is not a DSL. It's a tree serialization format! Everything interesting is happening after it is parsed. Extreme examples point to e.g. github actions conditions. Anyway, back on topic - maybe not prolog for CDK, but still quite interesting: Dhall-kubernetes - https://github.com/dhall-lang/dhall-kubernetes

At this point, if it’s painful enough, why isn’t compiling-to-yml tools more popular? Example: https://github.com/dhall-lang/dhall-kubernetes Haven’t used dhall myself but I’d definitely prefer a DSL on top of yaml.

k8s is a pretty good one. I would not touch k8s without Dhall: https://github.com/dhall-lang/dhall-kubernetes

Dhall for kubernetes might be what you are looking for. https://github.com/dhall-lang/dhall-kubernetes

Dhall is my favorite configuration language that I never get around to using. I manage DNS in Terraform, and since every Terraform provider uses different objects definitions, and every object definition is rather verbose, Dhall would be a way to specify my own DRY types and leave the provider-specific details in one place. Adding new DNS entries and moving several domains between providers would be a matter of changing fewer lines. Dhall also has Kubernetes bindings: https://github.com/dhall-lang/dhall-kubernetes Although I'm tempted to just stick to Helm here: even though it's less type-safe, Dhall's verbosity makes me reconsider. I'd like to hear if anyone has used dhall-kubernetes if they like it.

Best thing is Dhall that I am aware of. Same situation, working as a consultant, forced to use broken things. https://github.com/dhall-lang/dhall-kubernetes

Lets look at a specific example. Take Kubernetes: everything is yaml, with complete schemas, all the way down. From your perspective this is configuration utopia, right? Meanwhile back in reality k8s is the poster child of "yaml hell". From the day it was released, people took one look at it, gave it a giant NOPE and instantly spawned half a dozen templating languages. The most popular of these is helm, which has a terrible, no good, very bad design: full of potential injection attacks from purely textual string substitution, manually specified indentation to embed parameterized blocks, virtually no intermediate validation, no way to validate unused features, etc etc Compare to dhall which publishes a complete set of dhall-k8s schema mappings which enables you to factor out any design you want down to as few configuration variables as you

It's great if the system is built directly on top of it, e.g. spago. Not so much if you're trying to type yaml. Dhall is very opinionated, so trying to use it like TypeScript to type an untyped structure is... interesting. E.g. for Kubernetes: https://github.com/dhall-lang/dhall-kubernetes

There's a Kubernetes plugin/package for Dhall [0] that can do this [1], it's very neat. I've played with it briefly, and whilst a tiny bit verbose (mostly as a function of the K8s specs themselves I suspect), the ability to have it validate everything before you even touched K8s was worth it imo. [0] https://dhall-lang.org/ [1] https://github.com/dhall-lang/dhall-kubernetes

What about something like https://github.com/dhall-lang/dhall-kubernetes ?

Huh, why build an entirely proprietary language for this? There are existing toolchains that bend existing rich configuration languages, like Nix [0] or Dhall [1], to produce Kubernetes object definitions. In this way, not only can existing libraries be leveraged, but no new semantics have to be learned, and no third party needs their palms crossed. This had to be pointed out; Pulumi's docs repeat the adjective "real", as if its competitors aren't real. "real code", "real package management" [2], "real languages" [3], "real programming model" [4]... Nix and Dhall are quite real, though. So is this an incomplete survey, or are Pulumi's docs unrealistically self-aggrandizing? TBH even just this one paragraph of yours is pretty tough to stomach, as if loops and functions in a configuration language were a novel concept. [0] https://github.co