MetaPython

Full agree. Value types are underrated. That's one of the best things about C# and Go. They are increasing performance (with contiguous memory) and reducing GC pressure. I also believe that dynamically typed languages like Python would gain a lot by introducing a form of value types/unboxed values. For example, Cinder, Meta's internal version of CPython, supports what they call "static classes": https://github.com/facebookincubator/cinder?tab=readme-ov-fi....

Agreed. I'd like CPython to offer the possibility to opt in semantics that are more amenable to optimizations, similar to what Cider is enabling with their opt-in strict modules and static classes: https://github.com/facebookincubator/cinder.

Is anyone familiar with Instagram's cinder? https://github.com/facebookincubator/cinder cinder includes changes for immutable module objects. I wonder if the implementation is similar? Or is cinder so old that it would be incompatible with the future noGil direction?

Did what? Rewrite Instagram into another language? Do you have any source on this? Last time I checked they're working on improving Python performance instead (yes I know they forked it into Cinder, but they're trying to upstream their optimizations [0]). Which is very similar to what we're doing at Shopify. Of course 100% of Instagram isn't in Python, I'm certain there's lots of supporting services in C++ etc, but AFAIK the Instagram "frontend" is still largely a Python/Django app. The joke is that if Meta thought that replacing all the Python code they have with something else was worth it, they'd have done it already. [0] https://github.com/facebookincubator/cinder

Cinder's benchmarks don't seem "like Java" performance, given they aren't that far off cython. https://github.com/facebookincubator/cinder/blob/cinder/3.8/...

Meta is actually contributing directly to upstream cpython. If you really wanted to, the internal fork is also open source: https://github.com/facebookincubator/cinder

(I use django in production myself, nothing against it) It's probably worth noting Meta made their own JIT'd version of CPython just for Instagram/Threads. Maybe mastodon devs can use their interpreter, but Meta's human/compute resources are magnitudes more than mastodon, the lessons from Meta might not be very applicable. https://github.com/facebookincubator/cinder

This is largely due to Meta maintaining an internal performance-oriented production version of CPython: https://github.com/facebookincubator/cinder .

https://github.com/facebookincubator/cinder Instagram (and presumably threads) runs on Cinder which is Meta's fork cpython with GIL removed.

No, Meta’s contract has explicit carve-outs for Open-Source work done on personal time that are more generous than Canonical’s (I had to choose between the two 3 months ago). Meta has its own production fork of CPython, Cinder: https://github.com/facebookincubator/cinder

They’ve kind of done that with Cinder https://github.com/facebookincubator/cinder. Threads and Instagram lie on top of this and it’s essentially a fork of Python 3.10. I think the problem there is even a company like Meta wants to rest on the shoulders of the giant Python community. It makes sense for Meta to try to get parts of Cinder into Python.

That is just CPython fork from instagram https://github.com/facebookincubator/cinder/

You might enjoy Cinder then. It's based on CPython so it is nearly 100% compatible. https://github.com/facebookincubator/cinder/ Disclaimer: I used to work on it.

Have a look at Cinder - https://github.com/facebookincubator/cinder - it's Meta's performance oriented fork of CPython that they use to run Instagram (which is a big Django app).