elm-github-install

at Richard Feldman was involved in. He was instrumental in making the Elm community a hostile and unwelcoming place."? [0] https://github.com/gdotdesign/elm-github-install/issues/62#i... (check the edit history) [1] https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...

y. This was usually after having invested hundreds of hours in the language, because the basic golden path was very polished in Elm. I can only speculate on the reasons why there was this disparity between marketing and reality. Certainly the language gained a lot more interest and community investment than a Show HN hobby project, and some people did benefit from that. I'm not making any specific claims about Evan. The "nice" aspect is relevant because while following the Elm community closely, I witnessed many harsh interactions on the part of Evan and Richard Feldman that were simply wrapped in gentle verbiage. Here's just one example (check the edit history): https://github.com/gdotdesign/elm-github-install/issues/62#i...

ledge I gathered during that time have been put to good use :) I just can't understand how they could ignore all the work I've put in, if someone would invest that much time and effort into Mint (or any open source project of mine) I would welcome it and or at least start a dialog on how we could integrate their work into the language. Anyway, I thought I share my Elm story with you (although probably a bit late :)) Cheers [1] https://github.com/gdotdesign/elm-ui [2] https://github.com/gdotdesign/elm-github-install [3] http://elm-directory.herokuapp.com/ https://github.com/gdotdesign/elm-directory [4] https://github.com/gdotdesign?tab=repositories&q=elm-&type=s... [5] https://www.mint-lang.com/ https://github.com/mint-lang/mint

but are seen and must be dealt with by others; and of conflicting priorities. Essentially it is a request to the author: "I ask that you spend time to revise your design to figure out how to allow my module's techniques to keep working at the same time as achieving the design goals of Elm going forward, and reverse your design decision that you have already made". > I feel like if you make it so that users of your platform cannot do certain work for themselves, and instead must await you doing the work, you are basically creating the entitlement. You now owe it to them, in some sense, to do the work, since you have intentionally blocked them from doing it themselves. You have not blocked them. As many commenters have pointed out, you don't have to wait, you can fork. You can fork quietly if you don't want social issues from making a big noise, as vast numbers of developers do with a vast numbers of projects. If the upstream author is not making it easy for the downstream module author, perhaps requiring the downstream author to maintain a patched version of the compiler and persuade other people to use the patch, tough. There's isn't and shouldn't be any moral obligation on the upstream to screw their design goals to accomodate that particular downstream author. I've had to maintain patched Linux kernels for a project. I didn't resent Linux upstream for that. I didn't complain that I needed to patch the kernel. It was just part of the cost of doing my project. It limited what I could expect to do, but I went into it informed of what to expect. > it's plain that there is a certain slice of the population who doesn't prefer this paternalistic approach to software tools. I agree. It's more than prefer for some. A certain slice almost demands it and makes life hard for any author who does not provide. For which the word is "entitlement". Unfortunately that slice has a subslice who wants something self-cancelling: A non-paternalistic project that talks with them at length patiently, accomodates most requests no matter how varied and contradictory, yet still produces a coherency of design, magic-sauce artefact for them, preferably on a regular release cycle with QA, with nobody's time and personal needs covered. In other words, what they want isn't always feasible, yet they still demand it from individuals (often via emotional pressure), rather than start their own projects. > Personally my advice is if you're not into opinionated BDFLs blocking you from doing things for non-technical reasons, don't use ecosystems controlled by BDFLs I agree wholeheartedly. And that's the advice given to Luke by an Elm developer in 2018! :- https://github.com/gdotdesign/elm-github-install/issues/62#i... Sounds like Luke chose to ignore the advice, then was angry 1.5 years later. I think it can be argued that the person ignoring the advice is the one who creates the later problem for themselves. > If the Evans of the world wish to remain atop their ivory tower, then they will be the recipients of an incrementally higher frequency of rage-quit posts as a result. Should doesn't enter into it. That's just how it is. I think that comes under excusing abuse by saying it's inevitable that someone will do it. Public rage-posts about someone's work are still abuse if the basic problem is that the other person didn't do what you wanted them to. What we should have, in a "good" world, is that people like Evan should be able to produce their projects in relative peace without abuse. If people don't like the project, in the "good" world people know what to expect and are free to start their own alternative. I think the Evans of the world lose in our current world, no matter what they do. If they are less paternalistic, they will have both an ever-increasing workload until they step down, and the project will not fulfil their design wishes so it's much less rewarding.