kit

but the community I think is more composed of the former people that I describe, which is why you don't see any attempted framework take hold in the community, because most current members are not in the group that "just want to build the product using an established framework". I think the community has settled, ounce again, on a bit of a balanced approach, Kit (https://github.com/kit-clj/kit) and Edge (https://github.com/juxt/edge) are such hybrids. And some more direct viable frameworks have come along like Biff (https://biffweb.com/) and Fulcro (https://fulcro.fulcrologic.com/). That said, since the community is more composed of people like me, you don't see a mass move of every Clojurian switching to one of those. So it creates some questions? 1. Is it a problem that the language targets engineers more interested in a balance between non-functional and functional? 2. Should it be mutually exclusive, or can Clojure equally serve both niche? And if so, should it, why? 3. Is the claim that you can be as productive and it is just as easy to build a product without using a framework in Clojure true? Does this apply to everyone, or only certain personalities or people with certain amount of lower level knowledge? 4. Is Clojure's marketing misleading? Are people looking to just "build the product using an established framework" mislead in thinking Clojure will offer them salvation? 5. Where do most developer fall in, if they don't fall in the category Clojure currently targets, then does that mean Clojure cannot become mainstream? To go mainstream does it mean you have to target frameworks because there are more developers looking to just make a product using a framework? I don't have answers to these, I'm just trying to define the current state and what the problem with it might be, or if it even is a problem.