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ben509·Mar 29, 2021

It still is, and Cython is great for accelerating critical Python code. A C extension is far preferable when you want to code in C, either to write a new data type[1], or write a Python frontend to a C library[2] that is too complex to be well supported by simple FFI. I think people use Cython more internally when they value the maintainability of "mostly Python" over the fact that it's slower than what native C would get them. [1]: https://github.com/tobgu/pyrsistent [2]: https://github.com/libgit2/pygit2

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gravypod·Mar 9, 2021

> So why can't you just write your language support library in whatever language you like, wrap that in something that supports the C ABI if it doesn't already, then call that from your editor? You can! This is called "defining an API" and this is basically what an LSP is. The downsides of using the C ABI like I said is not all programming languages use the C ABI. To work around this you have suggested writing a wrapper transforms to/from this API that follows the C ABI calling conventions in each language you want to support. To see how fun of an endeavor this is you can look at things like libgit2 [0] which spend a lot of time maintaining bindings for each language. While these bindings do absolutely work they are: 1. Difficult to maintain (look at some issues [1, 2, 3]) 2. Completely duplicates effort (test frameworks, integration test

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ing, etc cannot be automated). If you instead separate into services the lsp team could maintain a whole test suite that your service could be run against. You would provide an LSP + a corpus that has certain features and the test framework could do a set of operations to talk to this system. If you use a dsl to describe the protocol you can automatically generate server/client libraries to use to talk to/implement an lsp (and other services!) I'm a huge fan of gRPC for this reason: write a single dsl and now everyone can talk to/implement your service. You can define shared debugging tools. For example ebpf can be used to debug any networked application in linux regardless of what it's implemented in. Similar tools can now be developed at an application protocol level for all LSPs to make development easier without tying the infrastructure to a single language or ABI. The crux of the issue is: service boundaries solve the exact same thing that C ABI/ffi solve with the following benefit: 1. No dependency on any language-specific implementation of a protocol or API. 2. TCP is supported everywhere and you can get a bunch of free monitoring features from using it. It's also pretty darn fast now especially to localhost. 3. Easy to plug into an TCP server regardless of your runtime environment. Do you need to host your source code on a linus system when your dev environment is running in windows in Visual Studios? No problem! > Language support people still have to write language support code. Editor people still have to write editor support code. Correct! Except it's which code gets duplicated. Could LSPs been implemented as .so & dlls that followed the C ABI calling conventions passing HSOURCE_FILE* back and forth in process? Yes! Would it have been easy to implement that for all languages in a safe and secure way that can run in an adversarial environment and allow different people to manage and debug different implementations while sharing standardized tooling? No, not easily. [0] - https://github.com/libgit2/libgit2#language-bindings [1] - https://github.com/nodegit/nodegit/issues [2] - https://github.com/libgit2/git2go/issues [3] - https://github.com/libgit2/pygit2/issues

In Write libraries instead of services, where possible

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