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mikewest
privacy-budget
Security & Privacy2019–2025
mikewest / privacy-budget · Archived

privacy-budget

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9Distinct people
14Mentions
0Explicit recommenders
208GitHub stars
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This week on Hacker News

Nov 7–Nov 14 UTC · Direct repository links and separately labeled related project stories. Indexed through 11/14/2026, 5:04:57 PM UTC.

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Observed mentions: 2019-08-22 16:54:04 UTC to 2025-11-23 10:07:08 UTC.

012342019-01-01 00:00:00 UTC to 2020-01-01 00:00:00 UTC (exclusive): 3 mentions; 0 submissions, 3 comments20192020-01-01 00:00:00 UTC to 2021-01-01 00:00:00 UTC (exclusive): 4 mentions; 0 submissions, 4 comments2021-01-01 00:00:00 UTC to 2022-01-01 00:00:00 UTC (exclusive): 3 mentions; 0 submissions, 3 comments2022-01-01 00:00:00 UTC to 2023-01-01 00:00:00 UTC (exclusive): 1 mentions; 0 submissions, 1 comments20222023-01-01 00:00:00 UTC to 2024-01-01 00:00:00 UTC (exclusive): 2 mentions; 0 submissions, 2 comments2024-01-01 00:00:00 UTC to 2025-01-01 00:00:00 UTC (exclusive): 0 mentions; 0 submissions, 0 comments2025-01-01 00:00:00 UTC to 2026-01-01 00:00:00 UTC (exclusive): 1 mentions; 0 submissions, 1 comments2025

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PeriodStart (UTC)End (exclusive, UTC)MentionsSubmissionsComments
20192019-01-01 00:00:00 UTC2020-01-01 00:00:00 UTC303
20202020-01-01 00:00:00 UTC2021-01-01 00:00:00 UTC404
20212021-01-01 00:00:00 UTC2022-01-01 00:00:00 UTC303
20222022-01-01 00:00:00 UTC2023-01-01 00:00:00 UTC101
20232023-01-01 00:00:00 UTC2024-01-01 00:00:00 UTC202
20242024-01-01 00:00:00 UTC2025-01-01 00:00:00 UTC000
20252025-01-01 00:00:00 UTC2026-01-01 00:00:00 UTC101

What Hacker News says

14 sources
As someone who used to work on Chrome, I can confirm that browser fingerprinting is indeed a nightmare. Back in the early days of Privacy Sandbox, before that crashed and burned against the UK CMA not even letting Google remove third-party cookie support [0], there was a lot of optimism about how we were going to completely solve cross-site tracking, even in the face of determined adversaries. This had several ingredients; the biggest ones I can remember are: 1. Remove third-party cookie support 2. Remove unpartitioned storage support 3. IP protection at scale 4. Solving fingerprinting In the end, well... at least we got 2, which has some security benefits, even if Chrome gave up on 1, 3, and 4, and thus on privacy. Anyway, everyone could tell that 4 was going to be the hardest. The closest I saw to an overarching plan was the "privacy bu
Read the rest
dget" proposal [1], which would catalogue all the APIs that could be used for fingerprinting, and start breaking them (or hiding them behind a permission prompt, maybe?) if a site used too many of them in a row. I think most people were pretty skeptical of this, and the main person driving it moved off of Chrome in 2022. Mozilla has an analysis suggesting it's impractical at [2]. Some code seems to still exist! [3] A key prerequisite of the privacy budget proposal was trying to remove passive fingerprinting surfaces in favor of active ones. That involved removing data that is sent to the server automatically, or freezing APIs like `navigator.userAgent` which are assumed infallible, and then trying to replace them with flows like client hints where the server needed to request data, or promise-based APIs which could more clearly fail or even generate a permissions prompt. This was quite an uphill battle, as web developers (both in ad tech and outside) would fight us every step of the way, because it made various APIs less convenient. Elsewhere people have cited one example, of reducing Accept-Language [4]. The other big one was the user agent client hints headers/API [5], which generated whole new genres of trolls on the W3C forums. As Privacy Sandbox slumped more and more towards its current defeated state, people backed off from the original vision of a brilliant technical solution that worked even in the face of determined adversaries. Instead they retreated to stances like "if we just make it hard enough to fingerprint, it'll be obvious that fingerprinting scripts are doing something wrong, and we can block those scripts"; see e.g. [6]. Maybe that would have worked, I don't know, but it becomes much more of a cat-and-mouse game, e.g. needing to detect bundled or obfuscated scripts. And now of course it's all over; the ad tech industry, backed by the UK CMA, has won and forced Google to keep third-party cookies forever, and with those in place, there's not really any point in funding the anti-fingerprinting work, so it's getting wound down [7]. The individual engineers and teams are probably still passionate about launching opt-in or Incognito-only privacy protections, but I doubt that align with product plans. I'm sure Google doesn't mind the end result all that much either, as having to migrate the world to privacy-preserving ad tech was going to be a big lift. Now all that eng power can instead focus on AI instead of privacy. [0]: https://privacysandbox.com/news/privacy-sandbox-next-steps/ [1]: https://github.com/mikewest/privacy-budget [2]: https://mozilla.github.io/ppa-docs/privacy-budget.pdf [3]: https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromium/src/+/36dc3642bee... [4]: https://github.com/explainers-by-googlers/reduce-accept-lang... [5]: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/User-Agent_... [6]: https://privacysandbox.google.com/protections/script-blockin... [7]: https://privacysandbox.com/news/update-on-plans-for-privacy-...
In The privacy nightmare of browser fingerprinting
You can't block fingerprinting completely without breaking a ton of useful features. But the sandbox has a concept called the privacy budget which tries to determine if a site is collecting too much information. It should allow sites that actually use some of these features to continue to work. The idea is that if sites that query fonts, engage canvas, read the user agent information, etc, they are likely trying to build a fingerprint, so the browser will start to return generic data. Presumably - hopefully - it would allow users to set their own privacy budgets. Even better if it supports granular per-site control, which may be needed for certain specialized websites. https://github.com/mikewest/privacy-budget
In Microsoft broke a Chrome feature to promote Edge
I don't think there are any plans to make this a pop-up. But it's still useful to move this entropy to be something that has to be actively collected: people can see which sites are collecting what information, and eventually browsers can start enforcing something like privacy budgets (https://github.com/mikewest/privacy-budget). You can't do these with something always sent automatically.
In User-Agent Reduction
> so Google's competitors have to create increasingly unethical and invasive fingerprinting techniques to remain competitive. Why would Google let their competitors to take advantages from fingerprinting if they can control the browser? In fact, Chrome explicitly mentioned anti-fingerprinting measures in their plan for 3rd party cookie deprecation, which is now called privacy budget. https://blog.chromium.org/2020/01/building-more-private-web-... https://github.com/bslassey/privacy-budget
In Google’s approach to replacing the cookie is drawing antitrust scrutiny
This is part of what the Privacy Budget (https://github.com/bslassey/privacy-budget) proposal aims to tackle. Freezing the User-Agent string reduces the amount of information exposed by default. UA Client Hints means the site has to explicitly request the additional information. The browser makes a choice about how to allocate / enforce budget. You're right though about how that works and how it would be exposed to the user in their browser still being open questions! More permission pop-ups certainly aren't the answer.
In Blink-Dev – Intent to Deprecate and Freeze: The User-Agent string
It changes the passive fingerprinting vector to an active one: https://github.com/bslassey/privacy-budget#passive-surfaces So, while UA hints could potentially supply more information than the current UA string - each item needs to be explicitly requested by the site meaning the browser can make a choice on what to return. This may depend on user's preferences, level of trust in a site, the amount of identifying information already provided to the site, etc.
In Blink-Dev – Intent to Deprecate and Freeze: The User-Agent string
The initial statement was low on details because it was just an statement of intention. Specific steps they're taking to combat fingerprinting are visible in their public bug tracker[1]. Also, let's not forget the privacy budget[2] system they just announced in the OP. That seems rather promising. [1]: https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/list?q=component... [2]: https://github.com/bslassey/privacy-budget
In Privacy Sandbox – Open standards to enhance privacy on the web
True, it does hand control to browser vendors. But I think I'd rather my browser have control over the information used to personalize ads served to me rather than that information being available to advertisers directly. Google is taking steps to stop excessive fingerprinting[1][2], so it's not like they're just adding new systems for ad personalization without closing off the existing, more intrusive ones. [1]: https://blog.chromium.org/2019/05/improving-privacy-and-secu... [2]: https://github.com/bslassey/privacy-budget
In Privacy Sandbox – Open standards to enhance privacy on the web
Here are the initial proposals from Chrome engineering: > https://github.com/jkarlin/floc > Browsers would need a way to form clusters that are both useful and private: Useful by collecting people with similar enough interests and producing labels suitable for machine learning... This still doesn't address spreading mass propaganda (show feed of immigrant crimes to floc 43A8C before the elections, because well, they happen to be Xenophobic) and user control. They propose browsers send random flocs to avoid clustering flocks of sensitive categories, but pretty sure the default isn't going to be random. -- > https://github.com/bslassey/privacy-budget > Fundamentally, we want to limit how much information about individual users is exposed to sites so that in total it is insufficient to identify and track users across the web, except for poss
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ibly as part of large, heterogeneous groups. So, this is a glorified version of Do Not Track but with budgets and involves more telemetry to be shared with browser vendors and/or websites? How is this even in the conversation? How about browsers simply block attempts to fingerprint a user or allow extensions that do? Penalise websites known to fingerprint from search results? Display a big red banner before the user navigates to that website? Proxy such websites, if the user so agrees and send only content that's relevant (like some kind of an advanced read-mode)? -- > https://github.com/dvorak42/trust-token-api#motivation > Preventing fraud is a legitimate use case that the web should support, but it shouldn’t require an API as powerful as a stable, global, per-user identifier. In third party contexts, merely segmenting users into trusted and untrusted sets seems like a useful primitive that also preserves privacy. This kind of fraud protection is important both for CDNs, as well as for the ad industry which receives a large amount of invalid, fraudulent traffic. I like the concept of issuing tokens and then redeeming them later... but it seems like a lot of elaborate crypto to only really prevent ad-fraud (the advanced fingerprinting techniques they talk about elsewhere cannot prevent it?). It opens up another attack surface, whilst also not being truly anonymous to the first-party that issues the tokens. -- > https://github.com/csharrison/conversion-measurement-api > Since the ads industry today uses common identifiers across advertiser and publisher sites to track conversions, these common identifiers can be used to enable other forms of cross-site tracking. > This doesn’t have to be the case, though, especially in cases where identifiers like third party cookies are either unavailable or undesirable. A new API surface can be added to the web platform to satisfy this use-case without them, in a way that provides better privacy to users. This is all out battle against content-blockers. Block third-party cookies, and still you're in their cross-hairs... but wait... this is more privacy-friendly, so will you, the end-user, please suck it up. -- I hope Raymond Hill is reading and already thinking of ways to mitigate this. I see this as push by Chrome in response to the ecosystem Brave is building and the direction Apple is going, and simply taking control of the privacy conversation by doing what's best for them, all around, without holding back any punches. That's not to say, Apple isn't doing the exact same thing! BigTech can't be trusted with privacy, and this post kind of proves it? "It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it." Indeed.
In Privacy Sandbox – Open standards to enhance privacy on the web

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